Sunday, Nov. 17, 2024 | 2 a.m.
It says just about everything you need to know about the state of the media industry and politics in 2024 to realize that the most consequential interview that President-elect Donald Trump did this cycle may not have been with a major network or news personality, but with the podcaster Joe Rogan.
Rogan is the muscled-up 57-year-old stand-up comic and mixed martial arts aficionado whose podcast, “The Joe Rogan Experience,” is the most popular in the country. His audience is so massive that when he interviewed Trump two weeks before Election Day, the three-hour conversation had 49 million views on YouTube, more than the total number of people who watched the entirety of election night coverage on any cable or broadcast news network.
Because of his immense reach, Rogan and other podcasters like him are considered part of the reason that Trump’s performance among young men jumped eight points since the 2020 election, according to network exit polls.
While Vice President Kamala Harris courted young female influencers, none had the impact of Rogan and his friends, who offer up hourslong conversations with guests on everything from food supplements to tattoos to politics and MMA. Although the vice president was apparently in talks to appear on Rogan’s show, her campaign said scheduling conflicts made it impossible. Trump, on the other hand, made the time.
It’s hard to say whether the Rogan-Trump confluence was the cause — or the effect — of Trump’s noticeably amped-up rallies and events in Georgia this year. But the audiences seemed to be noticeably younger than in 2020, with loads of college students coming out to cheer for Trump or just see what he was all about. When I asked a group of Georgia Tech students where they had heard about Trump for the first time in detail, they all had the same answer — from Rogan’s podcast.
To get a better idea of how the bromance began, I did a deep dive into what reporters lately have been calling the “Man-o-sphere,” namely podcasts from Rogan, Theo Von and a host of other male comedians, athletes and actors whose programs Trump has appeared on. The idea itself wasn’t some stroke of campaign genius. Instead Trump told Von that his 18-year-old son, Barron, is a fan.
In between ads for “Call of Duty” and conversations about cocaine use, I had expected to hear the same hard-charging Trump from his rallies, where he mocks and insults Democrats, the media, moderate Republicans, women, immigrants and any other group he has complaints about.
But what listeners heard instead were lengthy, sometimes thoughtful conversations with Trump and other guests about topics that traditional newscasts rarely delve into.
His interview with Rogan covered everything from what it was like for Trump to walk into the White House for the first time to whether there is life on Mars, and why he continues to claim the 2020 election was stolen. “How do you think you were robbed? Everybody always cuts you off,” Rogan said.
Rogan did not push back on Trump’s false claims about the election, but he did push him on the environmental damage from fossil fuels. “But there are legitimate concerns about environmental impact, correct?”
The tone was friendly, often personal, sometimes inaccurate and very comfortable, essentially the opposite of a news interview. And audiences flocked to it.
In an interview with Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Rogan explained why he doesn’t feel the need to correct his guests, even if what they are saying is wrong.
“You can put people in front of people; they might not even be right, they might be wrong,” he said. “But at least now you’re having a conversation.”
Although Rogan’s show is not pitched as “political,” a chance to sit with him and his millions-plus followers for hours became the most-prized destination for ambitious pols this year. Vice President-elect JD Vance, Elon Musk, Tucker Carlson and Democrat U.S. Sens. Bernie Sanders and John Fetterman all made the trek to Texas to be on the show.
Rogan’s podcast is the king of the hill, but not the only podcast worth doing for Trump.
His interview on Von’s “What Happened This Weekend” had 14 million views. Compare that with CNN’s total day ratings one day last week of about 600,000 viewers. That hourlong interview from Trump’s club in Bedminster, N.J., included a lengthy conversation about addiction, including Trump describing his older brother’s struggle with alcoholism as the reason he has never smoked or consumed alcohol.
“He was very wise,” Trump said of his brother. “He warned me.”
When Von talked about using cocaine in the past, Trump asked him if it was a good feeling.
“No. It’s horrible,” Von said.
“So why would you do it?” Trump asked.
What, you might be asking, does any of this have to do with being president?
Nothing and everything.
In an era when voters can Google nearly any fact or figure, the one thing that’s harder than ever to know is what a candidate is really like. Who are they beyond their résumé, their image or attack ads? What motivates them? Can you trust them?
A listener could easily have walked away from Trump’s three-hour interview with Rogan, inaccuracies and all, and felt like they knew him better than they ever would have before the podcast. And plenty decided that yes, they wanted to vote for him too. Which candidate wouldn’t want to skip the hard news questions and spend three hours that way instead?
Political media may never be the same.
Patricia Murphy is a columnist for The Atlanta Journal-Constitution.
