Donald Trump did not intend to “overthrow the constitution” during the Capitol riot and he might have prevented Russia from invading Ukraine, Boris Johnson has said.
In an interview with Times Radio, the former prime minister said it was “credible” to claim that President Putin would not have invaded Ukraine had Trump been president in 2022. The former president has repeatedly insisted the Russia-Ukraine war would not have happened had he been in the White House.
Johnson, speaking to Times Radio’s Stig Abell before the release of his memoir Unleashed, said the attack on the Capitol, fuelled by Trump’s attempt to overturn the result of the 2020 election, did not put him beyond the pale.
Boris Johnson said Donald Trump’s claim that Russia would not have attacked Ukraine if he had been in the White House was “credible”
SAUL LOEB/GETTY IMAGES
Speaking about the January 6 riot, Johnson said: “In my view whatever he intended, I personally don’t think he intended to, you know, overthrow the constitution. And what actually happened was the peaceful transfer of democratic power from one administration to another, and that’s what should happen.”
On the subject of Ukraine he said: “I think that some of the pessimism [about Trump] is overdone, and I think that Donald, actually, he gave the Javelins [anti-tank weapons] to the Ukrainians where the Democrats didn’t, right?
“When I was foreign secretary, he kicked out those Russian spies, 60 of them. So he can surprise very much on the upside.”
He added: “I happen to believe that when Donald Trump says that had he been president in 2022, there would have been no Russian invasion of Ukraine, my view is that that is a credible assertion. I really do think that’s credible.”
Johnson, who has been one of President Zelensky’s strongest backers, has acted as an intermediary between Kyiv and Trump
ZUMA PRESS WIRE SERVICE/ALAMY
Johnson, who remains one of President Zelensky’s most vocal supporters, has acted as a de facto intermediary between the Ukrainian president and Trump, a strong critic of the Biden administration sending billions of dollars in aid to Ukraine.
The full interview will be broadcast on Times Radio at 7pm on Thursday.
In it, Johnson claims Sue Gray, Sir Keir Starmer’s former chief of staff, was “as responsible” as he was over the parties scandal in Downing Street during the pandemic.
After the parties inquiry Sue Gray became Sir Keir Starmer’s short-lived chief of staff
STEFAN ROUSSEAU/PA
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He claimed that Gray — who investigated the parties while still a senior civil servant — “cherry-picked” information, adding: “One of the mistakes that I think I did make, and I apologise for the things we got wrong, I apologise for mistakes that were made, but the way I handled it was I got Sue Gray to do the inquiry.”
He said: “She was presented to me as a model of political impartiality and the soul of probity. And I’m not quite sure that recent events have entirely confirmed that.”
Asked if he thought Gray had “screwed you over”, he said: “I think to some extent, yeah.”
He added that Gray was the second permanent secretary to the Cabinet Office at the time, and said: “She was certainly about as responsible as I was.”
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On the subject of immigration, Johnson admitted it had “clearly gone off a cliff during the pandemic” and even though the numbers went down following Covid, the country had “no one to stack the shelves” and “serious price inflation”. Asked if the government had opened the doors too wide he said: “I think that we did.”
Johnson also apologised to Theresa May for describing her as “grumpy old knickers”. He said: “That’s not fair. Sorry about that … Theresa is … occasionally a bit starchy but with a very warm heart beneath it.”
Johnson acknowledged he was sometimes perceived as being “scruffy” but said: “I’d rather be a scruffy git than take suits paid for by a Labour donor who is then given a pass to No 10 … worth thousands and thousands of pounds and then not hand money back when you’re exposed.”
He said no one had ever told him he was too scruffy to be prime minister and suggested he was among those who “through no particular fault of their own find that their back is so configured that their shirt comes out of the back of their trousers”.
Listen to the full interview with Boris Johnson on Times Radio on Thursday at 7pm or on Thursday’s episode of The Story podcast.